DISQUS

Joe Wilcox : Why Is There No iLife-Equivalent for Windows?

  • Terry · 6 months ago
    One problem may be that, within Microsoft, if you can't get people dogfooding your app, it may not get the visibility required to gain mindshare, resources, and future development. (Let's not even get into marketing/evangelizing.) Every Microsoft employee has Office and uses it extensively. Gaining internal attention for a lightweight alternative that doesn't serve daily business needs could be next to impossible.

    Even if these apps could get internal mindshare, sustaining development flies in the face of internal review and reward practices.

    That said, I think you left out some really useful Microsoft services that don't (as far as I know) have equivalents from Apple: Live Sync (formerly FolderShare), Mesh, and Zune Social. The first two actually work really well.

    I've used Sync extensively for syncing oft-used files on multiple computers, making work files available for telecommuting without RAS/VPN access, and even for creating real-time off-site backups of personal files. Mac client, too, BTW.

    Mesh is similar, and the poor differentiation between Mesh and Sync confuses a lot of people. But it works well as an ad-hoc file sharing system. My work group used it to share production files between vendors in NY, OR, and India. Not perfect, but quick and easy when we needed it.

    Zune Social, in conjunction with Zune Pass, has a lot of potential that E&D really failed to deliver on. I should be able to suggest songs and share playlists more easily (which would instigate more people to get the pass for access to all those songs). There should be easier discoverability for friends. There should be better integration with social networks. All of these have the potential for building up a Zune network effect and self-priming marketing.

    But really, what's needed is a Live Writer equivalent for Mac OS and iPhone. How powerful of a blow would that be against Windows?
  • Joe Wilcox · 6 months ago
    You describe a disturbing development environment, Terry. And you're right to point out those other three services. But I see them as representing the new vanguard, products coming from guerrilla groups outside the Office and Windows mainstream.

    Microsoft needs to dedicate more people to incubation projects. Songsmith may not get much respect, but it's a marvelously fun product and example of what more should come.
  • whatever · 6 months ago
    In other words - a Windows laptop isn't a bargain at any price if it doesn't do what you want. cheap shot - i know...

    What you're proposing by saying a 3rd party developer should clone iLife is a gargantuan task - you would need a software house with extensive experience in audio, video, image and web content processing and creation. The closest fit i can think of is Adobe and even they would need to catch up or acquire audio technology. Who else is there that i'm missing, other than Apple obviously...?

    Unrealistic technical expectations aside, a smaller software developer would probably also be loathed to sink millions of RnD/acquisition dollars into an area that's such an obvious candidate for a Microsoft software suite to appear and promptly send you bankrupt.
  • Greg Glockner · 6 months ago
    I think the issue stems from the DNA. iLife is simple and elegant. It is nowhere near as powerful as the "Elements" products from Adobe, let alone full Photoshop or Premiere. Rather, iPhoto, iMovie and iDVD are simple yet elegant tools. Yet they aren't overly simple - you can still get great beautiful results with iPhoto and iMovie.

    On the Windows side, most programs are measured in terms of the number of features. These look good on paper but don't have the ease and elegance of the iLife applications.
  • Joe Wilcox · 6 months ago
    You think so, Greg? I would chose iLife over Elements any day. iLife has evolved over six years of development. iMovie is simply outstanding for providing a good balance of fun features elegantly delivered.
  • Mike Cherng · 6 months ago
    I had this thoughts similar to Joe years ago and was wondering why there is no such equivalent to iLife on the Mac. What I see is a probable solutions is actual to provide a workflow enviroment or application (let's call it dashboard) that allows 3rd party to create hooks to the enviroment to provide a better seamless workflow similar to iLife.

    The benefit to iLife in my opinion are the ability to do something in one app and they easily export or import by another app to do other editing or stuff...

    How about this scenario on the Windows. Microsoft create the dashboard with workflow hook enviroment, standardize it and allows Pinnacle Home Studio (movie), Adobe Photoshop Element (picture) and other media related tools from 3rd party to hook up to this suite which can be sold for X amount of dollars. Within that bundled, it will allow work 'seamlessly' through some kind of export or import mechanism through the dashboard enviroment, sort of like a bridge.

    3rd party suite just need to hook it up to the standard and Microsoft can simple work that out and decide on the variation of the suite. Get OEM manufacturer to bundle that with every Windows 7 or later machine... It's tested, it's integrated and it's working right out of the box for customer. Everyone company in those bundled suite benefits by the volume of sales.

    Updates to the application should be through that dashboard. I don't know how feasible is that or how complicated it would be... but that certainly leave the experts like Adobe and Pinnacle to get their entry level suite out to as many home user as possible. Advance tools should be not hurt by this as the features are obviously lacking on those entry level tools, which are by the way very polish.

    Will it work?
  • whatever · 6 months ago
    That does sound like a very Microsoft style approach to filling this gap.
  • Avatar X · 6 months ago
    Microsoft is now getting very dedicated to Photo Tech again. before they had things like Photo Story and Digital Photo Suite. parts of both were pretty much used to create Photo Gallery. but photo gallery allows plugins and that makes it better than Google solutions as it was designed to be in the first place. i would have liked if they had continued with DPS

    New stuff from that are is Photo Pro Tools. from MS Research there is also Photo Collage

    Live Writer is indeed a GEM that also accept Plugins. i use 10 of them in WLW and its just marvelous. Blogo for the mac or Zoundry Raven are a very distant second place compared to WLW.

    Windows Live Movie Maker final will be launched with Windows Live Wave 4 as i was supposed to be Project Monaco (garage band equivalent) but it think the later may not arrive until wave 5. i have no clue what other thing they will include with WLS wave 4.

    Windows DVD Maker is the way it is because of two things that Microsoft will not risk on:

    1.-AntiTrust
    2.-Anti Competitive Behavior with competing Products and with Partners..

    DVD Maker existence alone was damn struggle as i understand, it was meant to be more powerful actually but Microsoft backtracked because of the reasons above.

    The very same happened with OneCare and even if it was a EXCELLENT product that had a low cost of 1 to 1.5 dollars per computer a month for a suite that did everything and that once set the user had to do nothing for a entire year. they were forced to back out of the market by force via its antitrust overseeing, OEMS and Security companies

    there is Lifecam Show but you forgot that there is a complementing service called Live Video Messages.that is meant as complement of lifecam show

    There is also the omission of DeepZoom Composser from Expression.

    Live Mesh and Live Sync as already stated by other commenter.

    And yes WLS IS MEANT to be the iLife and Google Desktop Services from Microsoft. but it has a project road path of 5 Waves in order to get to what it is supposed to be the finished Rooster of software offerings.
  • Avro · 6 months ago
    Perhaps Joe the penny may be dropping with you that Windows is for Enterprise while Mac OS X is for Home Users, Students and Creative Professionals. I fall into all 3 of those categories and it is one of the reasons that Windows 7 is no temptation for me. The Applications just are not there or 2nd Class for what I do.
  • billybob · 6 months ago
    If "Businesses and consumers don’t buy operating systems. They buy applications." then why did you choose price over applications at least 3 times?

    Does this post indicate that you might regret dumping the Macs?

    P.S. Did you try Dell Mega Picture Video Storage Library? I don't hear great reviews but it might be worth a shot if you are stuck.
  • Joe Wilcox · 6 months ago
    I don't regret dumping the Macs, billybob.

    I made a choice of hardware applications, where Windows PC features met needs Macs don't. My Sony VAIO wasn't a cheap purchase, costing around $1,900 as a discounted outgoing model. It wasn't a price choice. The Z590 offers much better screen resolution, integrated Sprint modem and other features I couldn't get from Apple in a notebook of this size and weight.

    For my daughter, she had used a loaner MacBook that I planned to send back, and Apple asked returned after I was laid off from eWEEK seven weeks ago. I found her a comparable Sony laptop, and pink, for about $500 less than the MacBook she used. However, if the $1,199 MacBook Pro had been available then, I would have paid the extra hundred bucks for it. She was accustomed to the Mac and using iLife. But I didn't have that option two months ago.

    For me, Windows 7 precipitated the switch. Windows 7 achieves an acceptable level of performance and stability so that I can just work, rather than waste time troubleshooting glitches. Most of the applications I use either run fine on Windows, or there are Windows equivalents close to Mac applications (like Adobe Lightroom swapped for Apple Aperture) or I use a Web-based app or service.

    There are many things I miss about the Mac. Do I have major regrets? No. Will I when Snow Leopard ships? We'll see.

    I will say this about Windows applications: Email client selection sucks, and Microsoft deserves blame for that. I've used many, many email clients over the years, and Outlook is at the bottom of the pile. Unfortunately, Outlook's market success--pushed on by businesses running Exchange--made the pile smaller. There are few good choices left. I'll soon be taking all my email, and much of everything else I do, to the cloud. But that's topic for a future blog post.
  • Avatar X · 6 months ago
    you think OutLook 2007 is bad?. umm..ok. have you tried out Office 2010?.

    you also have the choice to use Windows Live Mail or outlook alternatives like Evolution or even Thunderbird or Zimbra Desktop.
  • billybob · 6 months ago
    Sorry, but you really haven't convinced me that people buy applications (as you stated before). All of those comparisons were based on features and price (aka value) not applications.

    Where are the Windows equivalents of these applications?

    Garage Band - Great for recording podcasts, I don't think that there is anything which is as easy to use on Windows. Even you borrowed your wife's Mac to record your last audio podcast.

    iMovie - I think you have proven there is no competitor on Windows.

    Time Machine - Windows Backup and Volume Shadow Copy are nowhere near Time Machine in their usability or backup capability. The registry is still a thorny issue.

    Proper user privileges - Both Mac and Linux have proper account separation and the applications are designed with this in mind so you rarely see a password dialog. Windows just uses a placebo to make it look like it is secure when UAC is nothing to do with security.

    Web Browser - IE8 is junk, to get a good browsing experience on Windows you have to install a third-party browser which lacks the integration of IE8. Doesn't it seem strange to you that Microsoft cannot write a decent browser?

    Which applications did you want when you bought all of the Windows PCs? Your answer did not mention applications at all (except Windows 7 which is not really an application). Otherwise how do you justify your statement that people buy applications?

    P.S. All email clients are broken, email is broken. Once you are in the cloud you might start looking at Google Wave for your blogging and communication. The demo looked very cool for bloggers.
  • Otto · 6 months ago
    The thing is that iLife now isn't as good as it was. iLife 06 was really good. Since then, they've added so many features to the applications since then, that they've become complicated and bloated. Remember when iTunes was great at organizing your music? Now it's a phone-syncing, movie buying/renting/playing, music store that can also play music. iPhoto has added so many features that I long for the simplicity of what it once was. Garageband is cool for the first few days, but then for most users never gets used again. iWeb is neat if you have MobileMe, though for most people, Facebook and free blogging sites make it pointless. iDVD is a very robust authoring app, but Windows DVD Maker is actually really useful for creating simple DVD's, which is what I find I do most often. And iMovie was great in it's previous incarnation, but I just can't stand the new one. What should be simple isn't, and every time I start it up, it takes five minutes to create thumbnails of my videos.
    I don't think Microsoft needs iLife for Windows anymore than Apple needs Live Essentials for Mac. What I think the real question should be, is why doesn't Apple include a series of short and simple games for the Mac? Do they not realize how important Solitaire and Mine Sweeper are to Windows users? But no. All Apple offers is Chess. So if I have an hour or two to spare, I can pull that up. Nothing beats a good, quick game of FreeCell, and that's why Windows has 95% market share.
  • Avro · 6 months ago
    Actually Windows has about 88% of market share, but 70% of that 88% is Enterprise so when we get down to people with a choice it's 18% vs 12% and most of the 18% have never looked at an alternative (many of them don't even know there are alternatives!)

    I enjoy playing Bejeweled 2 Deluxe on my Macs, very nice indeed.
  • Roelandinho · 6 months ago
    That's not correct. 70% of 88% is actually only 61.6% (0.7*0.88 = 0.616). So when we get down to people with a choice it’s 26.4% vs 12%.

    Your point remains though (if the initial assumptions were right).
  • Avro · 6 months ago
    Sorry I worded that badly. My fault.

    Microsoft has 88% of the market.

    70% of the market is Enterprise computing.

    OS X and Linux have 12% of the market


    So my figures of 18% vs 12% remain.
  • jay · 6 months ago
    I agree with Avatar X. M$ simply can't get away with the sort of bundling that Apple can. Even if M$ charged $79 for a comparable product that did all the stuff iLife does, 3rd party vendors would yell anti-trust quite loud. As such, the whole Morro play will be interesting to see develop. Symmantec and McAfee have made noise, but they may start yelling once Morro goes into public beta next week. From what I've read, it should be a very compelling free product. Ultimately, M$ has to cripple anything consumer centric. It won't be until Apple, Linux, and Andriod grab about 20% market share before M$ won't have to cripple these bundled apps. Bethatasitmay, it still doesn't excuse M$ from not offering an integrated, well defined, and somewhat more useful and elegant solution for all Windows Home and higher versions.
  • Avatar X · 6 months ago
    it is very compelling. i have had it for the last 3 days and it is a mix of OneCare engine with Forefront. they are related anyway but not it is a actual mix that even is already stated that it got 3 new things that are going to be added to forefront.

    the funny thing is the whole story of OneCare.. i already detail part of it. but before the whole struggle started it was starting to do better in retail channels and it also began to get ahead of all free av and basic home solutions. OneCare is still the engine of security for Hotmail and there going to be OneCare for small businesses, server and for WHS that never went to be. i hope that they allow installing of Microsoft Security for those scenarios now.

    The biggest loss in Microsoft Security is for XP and Vista since it don't comes with managed firewall.

    Windows Advisor(beta) is what was supposed to replace the part of onecare that did tune ups and it also meant as a way to resolve conflicts for XP.. it has not been updated.. so who knows if it is still going to be released.

    But as i said OneCare 2.5 was just awesome. really sad to see it go all because of symantec, mcfee and OEM's pressure (since symantec and mcfee paid a lot to bundle trails with new machines)

    But as i also said. just they being able to make DVD maker does what it does was a fight since that is another market with lots of OEM money and Companies like nero, roxio, windvd, etc,etc. that is how things are unfortunately.
  • Avro · 6 months ago
    Nothing will change on the bundling issue until Windows marketshare drops below 50% which is highly unlikely due to the inertia in Enterprise computing. Linux or OS X would have to be 100 times better than Windows for a change to occur. Mind you, on price, Linux is starting to look very attractive for Enterprise.
  • Roelandinho · 6 months ago
    @Avro

    I still find 18% vs 12% in home computing is unrealistic. You assume that 100% of enterprise computing is on Windows (the 70% is a subset of the 88%), but I don't think that's true. And if that's the case, then the 18% becomes larger and the 12% becomes smaller.
  • Avro · 6 months ago
    No it doesn't. You are looking at 30% and that is how it breaks down.

    And all Enterprise computing is not entirely Windows, but I would imagine that both Linux and OS X would find it hard to stretch to 1% worldwide given the numbers involved.
  • Tim · 5 months ago
    Mixcraft is a really good Windows equivalent to GarageBand. I have seen it work and it holds up really well.